One of the most appealing aspects of Young Earth Creationism is, it offers a simple, trouble-free view of God. “God made everything perfect. It was just us HUMANS who messed everything up. It’s all OUR fault.”
Reader Daniel, a Christian, asked:
“I have to say you have a very interesting take on the Bible then. If Adam and Eve were real people and did not do the original sin like you suggest then where did death and suffering come from? Surely God did not create via suffering, that would be an affront to his glory.“
My reply:
“Surely God did not create via suffering, that would be an affront to his glory” is not a belief or position that is given anywhere in scripture.
If you disagree, then show me.
When Job asks God for an explanation for his own suffering, “you sinned” or “humans sinned” was never part of the answer at all.
In fact… God offers the ferocity of nature as a challenge to Job’s search for an explanation: “Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook or tie down its tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through its nose or pierce its jaw with a hook?” (Job 41:1)
Not only that, God denounces Job’s friends for telling Job it was Job’s fault!
I invite you to reconsider the position you have espoused, because I don’t believe you can show it’s Biblical.
Remember: Even the beautiful Garden of Eden was staffed with a vile serpent from the word go. This serpent being Lucifer, the 2nd most powerful and #1 most evil, furious and jealous creature in the cosmos (!) Yet God gave Adam and Eve no advance warning about him.
Surely Lucifer’s agenda was more dangerous overall than physical death, cancer, bacteria, earthquakes etc. And he’s right there at the beginning of the story.
Why should we think death before the fall was impossible… yet accept that the devil himself is free to roam the earth?
Compared to the wheels set in motion before modern man arrived, issues like physical death pale in comparison.
We should all consider more deeply what or how God is willing to create.
Download The First 3 Chapters of Evolution 2.0 For Free, Here – https://evo2.org/evolution/
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To put the Genesis story in multi-cultural perspective, see the classic 1963 book “Myth and Reality” by Mircea Eliade. This does not diminish Christian or other religious faiths but enhances the variety of God’s revelations – that is, how they have been received.
For an amusing “take” on the origin of evil and death, consider Monty Python:
All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things rude and nasty,
The Lord God made the lot…
All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
The Lord God made them all…
All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The Lord God made them all.
Why Christians have failed to reckon with good and evil:
https://evo2.org/why-christians-have-failed-to-reckon-with-good-and-evil/
God made the Hittites and Amalekites. See also https://evo2.org/omega/ “Why the Bible doesn’t make sense without evolution.”
Mr. pery. I am very sure about there is no a person of god or a specific energy in any of the universe and in earth to provide anything for us.all kinds of biology are created by formation system.further human minds developments are thinking themselves and universe power effect.thanks.
With regard to sins, every person may commit them, because there is freewill; There are also infallible from committing sins, such as some prophets. Evil and good exist in order to test the abilities of human beings of faith, as evil is represented in Satan, while good is represented in what has been revealed from the heavenly instructions written in the holy books. Death exists as a result of the presence of the pneuma (spirit, soul) in the body of Adam, and when it is removed from the body, death occurs. Therefore, both evil and good are opposites where one destroys the other, as if we say: thing and antithing, so if good is found, it erases evil, and vice versa.
For a better model of sin/death entering the world, try this view…
All created beings (angels/humans) are contingent beings, that is, their existence depends on something else (God). Ps 82 God declares to the rebel elohim that they will die like mortals.
Adam was immortal in that he wouldn’t physically grow old and die, as long as he lived in the life-sustaining presence of God in Eden (literally God’s throne on earth). Incidentally this is the tree of life.
That’s not the same as being physically impervious to death… meaning, if Adam jumped off a cliff in Eden his body would probably be destroyed, absent God repairing it (which is possible… e.g. Jesus healing the guard’s ear Peter severed).
But mankind’s rebellion saw them expelled from that presence in Eden, then God left the earth completely.
It was never the plan for this to happen, to abandon earth and for men to die. Hence to die is to sin… the ultimate “missing the mark”. And since mankind’s expulsion from the presence of God and his subsequent total departure resulted in the removal of his life-sustaining presence… it ushered in the conditions, globally, whereby not ultimate sin (not dying) were impossible.
Hence the concepts of the creation being “subjected to futility”, and of God leaving the vineyard and “going to another country” for a while etc etc.
Sin/evil is deeper than just doing bad things… it’s the total, systemic, opposition to God’s plan for created beings to live in harmony, in perpetuity, with him.
Currently we live in a world where even if we want that, it’s impossible to achieve.
But the work of Jesus changed that by ritually purifying humanity for God’s presence to dwell alongside us again. First, spiritually and then physically when he transforms the world back to the Edenic conditions (starting with right relationship) that Adam et al were supposed to steward.
For a better model of sin/death entering the world, try this view…
All created beings (angels/humans) are contingent beings, that is, their existence depends on something else (God). Ps 82 God declares to the rebel elohim that they will die like mortals.
Adam was immortal in that he wouldn’t physically grow old and die, as long as he lived in the life-sustaining presence of God in Eden (literally God’s throne on earth). Incidentally this is the tree of life.
That’s not the same as being physically impervious to death… meaning, if Adam jumped off a cliff in Eden his body would probably be destroyed, absent God repairing it (which is possible… e.g. Jesus healing the guard’s ear Peter severed).
But mankind’s rebellion saw them expelled from that presence in Eden, then God left the earth completely.
It was never the plan for this to happen, to abandon earth and for men to die. Hence to die is to sin… the ultimate “missing the mark”. And since mankind’s expulsion from the presence of God and his subsequent total departure resulted in the removal of his life-sustaining presence… it ushered in the conditions, globally, whereby not ultimate sin (not dying) were impossible.
Hence the concepts of the creation being “subjected to futility”, and of God leaving the vineyard and “going to another country” for a while etc etc.
Sin/evil is deeper than just doing bad things… it’s the total, systemic, opposition to God’s plan for created beings to live in harmony, in perpetuity, with him.
Currently we live in a world where even if we want that, it’s impossible to achieve.
But the work of Jesus changed that by ritually purifying humanity for God’s presence to dwell alongside us again. First, spiritually and then physically when he transforms the world back to the Edenic conditions (starting with right relationship) that Adam et al were supposed to steward..
If we suppose that God has predetermined both evil and good in the psyche of human beings as bipolar, with the possibility of accumulation and dominance over each other, and in turn, God has already established consciousness, such as freewill in the human pysche, which urges us to seek causes of useful things to be achieved; likewise to avoid negative consequences. Hence, every action we practice leaves an influential encodings as feedback that settles in the brain of the heart, to become part of the individual’s genes, whether it is a positive or negative action, and therefore which poles outweighs its balance, it will determine the behaviors and desires of the human psyche. For this, every action has a consequence that is reflected in the individual, fortunately the freewill in the human psyche enables us to choose what we see as compatible with our desires. As for the consequences, whether they are beneficial, such as health, bliss, a comfortable life and knowledge; either harmful, such as suffering, evil, etc. Moreover, the individual (through the behaviors he exercises as well as thoughts, beliefs and habits) determines himself the polarity of his psyche which in turn affects his attitudes, thoughts and perception of the world. Therefore, the individual is responsible for his actions, and not God is the one who has authority over him. Therefore, evil and suffering result from the actions of humanity themselves, that is, they have a relationship to create those consequences in the surrounding environment. Thus, humanity affects the environment and vice versa. Psychological polarity we mean by cardiac magnetism that determines humanity’s orientations towards certain stimuli, for example, desire confirmation and logical confirmation, and so on.
Sin and Suffering: I do not think this is a hard question.
I like to ask: What can science teach us about religion? Can science help us to better understand religion?
If you will agree with me that science and religion exist compatibly in the same universe, then the answer to these two questions might be yes. Some think that religion exists in a different realm where physical principles do not apply. That may be true, but it is hard to have a discussion that relates to things like suffering, a physical world experience of all living things. Every living thing gets to be born and to die- in some sense. We all have most of our life in normal, happy, non-traumatic experience. But death always results from a transition to an abnormal state. And it usually hurts. One can create lawbreakers by passing a law in our city that forbids something that everyone does, like driving on the street.
In that sense, God can create evil, if we define evil as breaking God’s law. God’s law can be in place for very good reasons, including to reduce suffering which results from doing things that bring negative consequences. God can put into place consequences for breaking His laws that have to do with His relationship with us. There can also be consequences that accrue naturally.
If God had a law that said “Do not hit your thumb with a hammer!” it could have two consequences: 1) your thumb is injured, 2) God will not be close to or aid you because you are disobedient to Him. The second consequence stems from God’s intentional response to your disobedience. The first stems from you injuring your hand. God may have a purpose of both preventing injury to you, AND building a relationship of trust with Him, which will b rewarded with additional blessings, not necessarily related to using a hammer.
In more usual case, sexual activity is good (great!) under some circumstances and harmful under others. In a happily married family where sex blesses husband and wife with closeness, pleasure, and children, who will be cared for in an intact family, sex is good.
In a case of sex outside of marriage: 1) it usually creates expectations of a relationship fundamentally needed by both parties, 2) pleasure may come, 3) but the cultivation of a profound and expanding relationship of trust, caring and mutual support seldom happens 4) sometimes promiscuous sexual activity is part of a chain of of STD vectors and will result in passing a disease.
In this case the ability to form trusting relationships is damaged, as sociological studies have shown. Also there is a large probability that a child will be conceived, without the support structure of a family in place to bless its life. So far, everything I have said is equivalent to the natural injury you incur by smashing your thumb in the simpler example above. These are natural consequences of the action.
God’s law of chastity is intended to bless us in building families, with secure and rewarding relationships, and providing a nurturing experience for children. It also forms building blocks for society to thrive. All of those can be His intent. His intent can also be to prevent the natural consequences of promiscuity (emotional suffering, disease, child suffering, or abortion) which are really the suffering mentioned above.
I think that the universe contains many opportunities for us to injure ourselves that have nothing to do with “Evil” per se.
Evil is the result of disobedience which comes from breaking God’s laws, distancing ourselves from Him, making us more vulnerable to the enticing of Satan. When we do evil, we fail to gain the help God offers.
Because most of God’s laws have to do with encouraging us to build productive and effective social relationships, “Evil” also often also appears in the form of injuring others, and society as a whole.
I hope this discussion is helpful.
God warned Adam of Satan when he refused to prostrate to Adam’s body when the soul was breathed into it, so God said to Adam: “So we said, O Adam, this is an enemy to you and your husband, so do not expel you from Paradise, so you will be miserable.” And God warned Adam and Eve against eating that tree, so God said to Adam and Eve: “Do not approach this tree, lest you be of the wrongdoers.” But the nature of the human self made Adam inquire about what it is, and why God forbade it. And therefore he prepared his senses to listen to the whispers of Satan when he said to him, O Adam, but God prevented you from eating from it, so that you would not be immortal, and he swore to them that he was among the advisers to them, so Adam believed him, for this they ate it, so that they would be among the immortals. Therefore, God admonished Adam for eating from the tree (and we do not know what it is, but Satan called it the tree of eternity, which is a misnomer). They said, “Our Lord, forgive us.” Then God said to them, “Go down from Paradise, and you are enemies to each other.” For this reason, Adam disobeyed his Lord, and his offspring inherited the instinct of disobedience. And thus Satan has no authority over people, but only makes the deeds appear to them that they were previously familiar with; or that they themselves desired, and for that he calls on them, and if people respond to him, he will lead them astray. And God is merciful and accepts repentance, so we do not ask why evil, because God wrote on Himself mercy and forgiveness for people if they repent to Him. Therefore, we do not realize that God is merciful, except by forgiving us when we commit sins.